Segment Transcript
LOU DOBBS TONIGHT -- CNN

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Aired January 27, 2005 - 18:00 ET

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DOBBS: Mexico's government appears to be testing its limits for hypocrisy and double standards. The Mexican government officials frequently criticize the United States for the way Americans treat illegal aliens in this country.

But, incredibly, the Mexican government is not prepared to accept any comments by the U.S. government about the escalating crime wave along our border with Mexico. That crime wave has led to the abduction of at least 27 American citizens along the Mexican border over the past six months.

The State Department has now issued a travel warning to Americans, but the Mexican government today declared the United States has "no right to interfere in Mexico's affairs."

Those comments coming from Mexico's Interior Minister Santiago Creel who recently met with Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge. Creel, obviously, believes he has the upper hand in this relationship with the United States. You may remember that Tom Ridge said at that meeting -- Ridge declared he likes to think of Creel as his amigo.

Well, state lawmakers are increasingly taking action to crack down on illegal aliens in this country. One Oklahoma State senator has now proposed tough, new legislation that targets employers who hire illegal aliens. The legislation would, for the first time, impose harsh penalties on those employers.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Oklahoma, the median income is $8,000 below the national average. The poverty rate in 2003 was at 16 percent. Good jobs are become increasingly hard to find. That's what motivating Democratic State Senator Tom Adelson.

TOM ADELSON, OKLAHOMA STATE SENATOR: We're in danger of having just a permanent underclass stuck in poverty wages that can't move themselves up because employers will simply increase the supply of labor. SYLVESTER: Adelson introduced a bill that would for the first time make hiring illegal workers an unfair labor practice in the state. Companies could lose their corporate charter, be barred from state contracts, prohibited from deducting any wages to illegal aliens from their state taxes and they could be sued by laid-off Americans who are displaced by illegal workers.

DAN STEIN, FEDERATION OF AMERICANS FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM: All over the country now, people are going to be seeing laws like this. People have had enough, and they want to take it to the employers who have been the ones who have been defending this system and making everybody else deal with the consequences.

SYLVESTER: Critics say if this bill becomes law, it will make groceries more expensive, dampen the tourism industry and slow economic growth.

TAMAR JACOBY, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: Half of the new workers in recent years -- in some industries, 90 percent of the new workers in recent years -- are immigrants. Without them, the economy wouldn't be growing, and not just those industries, but all the industries that -- and businesses that depend on them.

ADELSON: To the extent that people believe in free markets, I do, too, but it is not a free market to artificially or illegally increase the supply of labor through illegal immigration.

SYLVESTER: Adelson's bill is aimed at not only protecting Oklahoma's workers, but also the local companies that do not hire illegal workers and have been at a competitive disadvantage.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: A separate proposal seeks to increase the number of customs and immigration agents assigned to Oklahoma. The state has an overall population of 3.5 million people, but only 12 immigration agents -- Lou.

DOBBS: Do we have a sense yet, Lisa, of how likely that this legislation will become law?

SYLVESTER: The State Senator Adelson -- he is extremely optimistic that this will move forward through the legislature, but it remains to be seen what happens after that. One of the things that he does have going in his favor is that public opinion seems to be on his side, Lou.

DOBBS: As it is across the country on the issue of reforming our immigration laws.

Lisa Sylvester, as always, thank you.

Senator Dianne Feinstein today introduced bipartisan legislation that would reimburse state governments for some of the $13 billion they are spending incarcerating illegal aliens. The proposed legislation would raise federal funding for state reimbursement programs, a program that required federal assistance expired in October.

Feinstein's proposal would reinstate that program and raise funding from the original $500 million to nearly $1 billion over the next seven years. Senator Feinstein says the goal is to remind the federal government to fulfill its duties and to remove the burden from the state governments.

Senator Feinstein will be our guest here tomorrow night to discuss her new proposal.

Congress is also considering legislation that would stop illegal aliens from obtaining driver's licenses in this country. While that effort is now underway, another high-profile group is pushing to legalize licenses for illegal aliens. A group of Hollywood celebrities, in fact, now saying illegal aliens have earned the right to drive.

Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An ad this week in Daily Variety says illegal aliens deserve as award, specifically a California driver's license. It's called a civil rights message to Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger from the entertainment community.

The ad nominates this woman, purportedly an illegal alien, for best nanny in a supporting role. It quotes her saying, "I am trusted every day to use my hands and my heart to nurture and care for children who are not my own, but I'm not trusted with a license to drive a car."

Thirty-two names are listed, including Danny Glover, Diane Keaton, and former Screen Actors' Guild President Ed Asner. He dismisses the idea that terrorists could take advantage of an illegal alien driver license bill.

ED ASNER, ACTOR: A terrorist has no problem at all getting fake I.D. up the wazoo. They have millions and millions. These poor immigrants have nothing but the desire to work and earn a living.

WIAN: The Oscar-nominated writer of "Million Dollar Baby" is himself an immigrant from Canada.

PAUL HAGGIS, SCREENWRITER: I think we owe it as a country to be compassionate, and we don't owe it to them to make their lives that much more difficult and to make it impossible for them to drive their kids to school or their -- to go to work.

WIAN: Supporters of illegal alien driver's licenses, who include many local law-enforcement agencies, say they would improve highway safety and national security because of fingerprinting and proof of identity requirements.

Opponents counter that fingerprint data would not be shared with federal authorities, and acceptable I.D. cards include the Mexican matricula consular which are easily forged.

RON PRINCE, CO-AUTHOR, PROP. 187: Our drug smugglers would like this bill to pass because that will enable them to get a California driver's license, a valid California I.D., by showing nothing more than a consular I.D. card from Mexico.

WIAN: Because of those concerns, the only actor who really matters in California politics, the governor, remains opposed to any illegal alien driver's license bill, until the proof of identity issue is involved.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: As for the nanny in the ad, she's not even a real illegal aliens, which goes to show that Hollywood is usually much better at dealing with fiction than reality -- Lou.

DOBBS: Thank you very much, Casey.

Casey Wian reporting from Los Angeles.

That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question is: Do you believe issuing illegal aliens driver's licenses is a matter of immigration, national security policy, both or neither? Cast your vote, please, at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results alter in the broadcast.

We'll have much more on this issue of driver's licenses for illegal aliens coming up later. Actor Mike Farrell will be here. He's one of the sponsors of that ad that ran in Daily Variety. He says it makes good sense to give driver's licenses to millions of illegal aliens. He'll be here to tell us why. We'll have a full and frank discussion.

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Celebrities for illegal aliens: Why a group of Hollywood actors and entertainers are fighting for the rights of illegal aliens to drive. I'll be joined by a member of the group when we continue. Stay with us.

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DOBBS: My next guest is part of a group of Hollywood actors and entertainers lobbying for illegal aliens in California to obtain driver's licenses. Mike Farrell is also the co-chair of Human Rights Watch California. Mike says it makes good sense to support illegal aliens in this country, and he's our guest tonight from Los Angeles. Mike, good to have you with us.

MIKE FARRELL, CO-CHAIR, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Lou, nice to be with you.

DOBBS: You know, there are people -- and you and I both know this, they are saying, oh, no, here we go, Hollywood again weighing in on a political issue. Let's deal with that issue right off the top. The standing for a group of entertainers to weigh in on this issue.

FARRELL: Standing is we're citizens, just like any other group of citizens. This is an issue that affects all of us who live in California, and we believe that the ad we took that seems to have raised the level of ire of some people really was pointed at the governor, to try to get the governor to actually engage this issue, as he had promised he would.

DOBBS: You know, at the same time this issue is boiling to a point, at least in California, as it has been over the past really two years, finally Washington is taking note of this issue. Congressman James Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, the highly respected chairman, taking on this issue. Congress for the first time at the federal level looks like it's going to do something about this. Are you opposed to the federal efforts as well as Governor Schwarzenegger's refusal to give illegal aliens driver's licenses?

FARRELL: I'm not quite sure what Congressman Sensenbrenner's position is, but I'm supportive of the position of the chief of police here in Los Angeles and the mayor of the city of Los Angeles, and you know, 10 different states that allow these people to have driver's licenses, because they believe it's appropriate for them to be able to get to work safely, and do so under legal strictures that require -- that allow the rest of us to be safe.

DOBBS: Mike Farrell is one of the smartest guys not only in Hollywood, but anywhere in the country, as well as a talented fellow.

FARRELL: Thank you. I can hardly wait for the next one.

DOBBS: We all have a preamble, but the fact is -- and as a thoughtful fellow -- the fact is we have a border security issue, we have immigration laws that are in tatters, and it cuts all sorts of ways, irrespective of the position you take. The fact is, we're watching an immigration law and a lack of immigration policy really create a tinderbox in this country. We're watching it right now on the Mexican border on the Mexican side of the border, where we're seeing citizens being abducted, we are seeing illegal aliens who are being abused by the Coyotes and the smugglers, and exploited, exploited by American businesses and employers.

You know, that nanny ad that you ran in "Variety." Someone is breaking the law by hiring her, instead of helping her in getting her citizenship. Why in the world would you simply talk about driver's licenses? It seems like such, if I may, a narrow approach for someone as thoughtful as you.

FARRELL: Well, thank you, Lou, for the backhanded compliment.

DOBBS: Well, no, I don't mean it that way. I mean it quite sincerely.

FARRELL: Yeah, but this is a very important issue for the people, the 2.5 million people who are undocumented in California alone, who are working in our community, many of whom have been here for many years, who have established in some cases legally authorized or legally understood residence, but are not allowed, because they don't -- they aren't yet documented -- and largely, Lou, you have to recognize that a significant number of them are not documented because of bureaucratic logjam in terms of the paperwork and the applications.

These people are trying to work and trying to be tax-paying, responsible citizens in our society, and it seems to me to be inappropriate and I think ultimately racist to continue to refer to them as illegal and dun them for being a drain on our society, when in fact they're just the reverse.

DOBBS: You think it's racist to call them illegal?

FARRELL: No, I think that many -- much of the attack on this kind of legislation and other kinds of legislation is based on racism.

DOBBS: Let me ask you a question, if that's the issue. What's the percentage of the population of the state of California that's Hispanic? FARRELL: Oh, it's at least close to, if not a majority by now.

DOBBS: Exactly. So it's somewhat -- I mean, I have a little trouble buying that. I know it's a convenient argument for those who want open borders and are taking a particular tack, it's also one employed by corporate America, because they want to exploit the labor. It's one employed by our organized labor unions, because they want to build their rolls. The fact is, we have a reality here, an economic reality, a social reality and a national security reality, and a driver's license is prima facie evidence of citizenship, isn't it? And why not simply...

(CROSSTALK)

FARRELL: No, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

DOBBS: No, please.

FARRELL: But in fact, what you're saying misstates the case.

DOBBS: OK.

FARRELL: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) bill does not give these people prima facie evidence of citizenship. It gives them a driver's license, and a driver's license that is given to them under very serious safeguards that have been drawn into the bill to protect American citizens from terrorists, and from criminals, and from all of the things that people fear, and it -- but it -- it simply deals with the reality, an economic reality that we have in this country, and particularly in this state, that needs to be addressed. People can't continue to treat this issue as though it doesn't exist.

DOBBS: Well, we're delighted that you, irrespective of the position you take, are helping to bring light to the issue, because it is, as you point out, critically important for all of us. Mike Farrell, as always, good to talk to you.

FARRELL: Thanks, Lou.

DOBBS: Still ahead here, we'll have the results of our poll tonight and a preview of what's ahead tomorrow.

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