Partial Transcript
Lou Dobbs Tonight with Kitty Pilgrim sitting in for Lou

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Aired February 24, 2005 - 18:00 ET

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PILGRIM: New developments tonight in the fight to keep drivers' licenses out of the hands of the millions of illegal aliens in this country. New York State says it will appeal a decision that critics say could make it easier for illegal aliens who have drivers' licenses to renew them. Bill Tucker reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You won't get your driver's license renewed in New York State unless you can prove you're living here legally. New York appealing an order from a state judge blocking the Department of Motor Vehicles from requiring a Social Security number as proof of legal status. Immigration groups charge that the agency is out of line.

CHUNG-WHA HONG, NY IMMIGRATION COALITION: They're definitely overstepping their authority because their job is to check the identity and residency of people and to give licenses to people who have passed a road test and the written test. This is not about immigration status.

TUCKER: A spokesman for New York's Department of Motor Vehicles says, "The DMV is not in the business of immigration enforcement. We are just attempting to make sure that the people we issue drivers' licenses to are who they say they are. The DMV doesn't make the rules," it says, "it follows the rules set by the state legislature, which wants the driver's license secured as a form of identification."

MATTHEW MIRONES, NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY: It's a given that once you present that driver's license, you're stating who you are. And I think, again, if we overlook the importance of that, and making sure that we cross-reference via the Social Security information, we're shortchanging our security.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCKER: Now, today, under the program, New York State has suspended 1,700 noncommercial licenses and 4,000 commercial licenses, Kitty, for failure to provide a Social Security number.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Bill Tucker.

That does bring us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you believe illegal aliens should be given the privilege to drive legally in this country? That's a "yes" or "no" question. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results later in the show.

Now, we have reported on the many states battling to keep drivers' licenses out of the hands of illegal aliens. And one of them, Utah, has a new plan that is drawing a lot of attention. Utah's Governor Jon Huntsman will join us to tell us all about that program still ahead here tonight.

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The Homeland Security Department says it has made a high-level arrest near the U.S. border with Mexico. Texas officials captured the suspected leader of a violent Central American gang called MS13. Now, he is also expected in a bus massacre two months ago in Honduras. Twenty-eight people were shot to death in that.

The arrest comes after the FBI and local police launched a crackdown on the gang. They say the gang is recruiting new members in this country.

Kelli Arena reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's early evening in Northern Virginia. And these members of the gang task force are getting ready to head out into the streets.

Their targets are young, at times, as young as 7 or 8. And dangerous. Earlier in the week, an alleged gang member wielding a machete cut three fingers off his victim's left hand. And this night could bring similar violence.

TROOPER VEGA, NORTH VIRGINIA GANG TASK FORCE: Some hand signs for flesh. Hand signs to see whether they're friend or foe. And if they're foe, that's where your get assaults.

ARENA: Both men, who work undercover and wanted their faces hidden, give extra scrutiny to young Latinos. That's because they are primarily on the hunt for members of the Latin street gang known as MS13.

The ATF, which has been fighting gangs for decades, says the increased use of violence by MS13 and others is alarming.

MIKE BOUCHARD, ATF: They're arming themselves much better than before. In fact, in many cases they're arming themselves better than the police.

ARENA: The Justice Department estimates there are more than 21,000 gangs nationwide.

(on camera) And the FBI says juvenile gang murders have shot up 25 percent since 2000. CNN has learned, as a result, the FBI is preparing a new gang offensive.

(voice-over) Among the changes, to reclassify gangs as criminal organizations, just like traditional organized crime families.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are organized. They do keep notes in their meeting. They do collect dues. They do have bank accounts where they're pay in canteen funds for members that are locked up.

ARENA: Part of the gang offensive includes outreach. Many task force members work with organizations like the Boys and Girls Clubs of America. This Aberdeen, Maryland, chapter sponsored a roundtable discussion after an alleged gang related murder in the area.

JEFF HAIRSTON, BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB: When gangs present themselves before you, tell them, "I don't want to be a loser; I want to be a winner." Because a loser took my best friend's life.

ARENA: Some of the young people in this room have been asked to join gangs.

DAYRON WINCHESTER, STUDENT: Still cuss at me, I mean, a little bit, flip me off, cuss, try to hurt my feelings, you know what I mean, because I didn't join them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm gang free.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm gang free.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm gang free.

ARENA: These kids are well aware of the problem. Often, their parents are not.

INVESTIGATOR SHURMA, NORTH VIRGINIA GANG TASK FORCE: A lot of these parents have no idea. Or they say they have no idea that their child is involved in that stuff. And that's what shocks me.

ARENA: Both gang task force members are parents, too, fathers of young children, making their battle a very personal one.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

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PILGRIM: A controversial piece of legislation is widely expected to pass in Utah. It would give illegal aliens the same right given to citizens of this country; this bill would allow illegal aliens to obtain a driving privilege charge. Well, my next guest says the governor of Utah, who plans to sign the bill when it reaches his desk as early as next week. So joining me now from Salt Lake City, Utah is Governor Jon Huntsman. Thanks very much for being here.

GOV. JON HUNTSMAN (R), UTAH: Thank you, Kitty. Honored to be with you.

PILGRIM: This is a sort of driving card. Why do you think that this is a good solution to the millions of illegal aliens that are here in this country, or the ones that are in Utah?

HUNTSMAN: Well, I don't see it as an all or nothing kind of debate here. Already our state, along with probably 11 other states, issues a traditional driver's license, which we have found is subject to abuse when it comes to identification card use, for example. What we're looking at doing instead is issuing a driving privilege card, which also states thereon that it is not good for identification. We have to, I think, recognize reality, Kitty, which is that we have many tens of thousands of -- of itinerant workers here, or undocumented aliens who still require mobility. You simply can't wave a magic wand and expect everyone to go home. And it doesn't matter whether it's someone here working or it's somebody who is studying from another country. Anyone who is looking for a driving privilege would get this driving privilege card instead of a traditional driver's license, which has been the practice in the past.

PILGRIM: Are you of the opinion that it would help secure the borders by making this distinction?

HUNTSMAN: Well, I think it's going to help in our state maintain and manage our economic situation, which is something that I'm first and foremost interested in. The federal government has to deal with the border situation. All I know in this state is that we have undocumented aliens here. We have to work realistically and pragmatically with the issue. We have mobility concerns that we have to worry about.

We're also talking about issues of driver insurance, for example. Our uninsurance rates have gone from 22 percent uninsured down to about 3 percent uninsured. For every driver on the road, that happens to be a good thing. And so for us, and for some of us who are public policy makers, this isn't an all or nothing kind of thing. We're finding a middle ground, good, sound, public policy solution going forward.

PILGRIM: What can you not use this card for? What is it not good for?

HUNTSMAN: Well, this card is only good for driving. It's good for driving privileges. Now, if a bank, for example, wanted to accept it as a form of identification to open up a bank account, that would be up to them as a private institution, but it could not be used as a form of identification, which is the problem we have with the driver's license today. And in some cases, we had folks from out of state who were coming into Utah, getting a Utah driver's license and using it nefariously for identification purposes. This would state specifically that it is not good for identification purposes, and would not be recognized as such.

PILGRIM: All right, thank you very much, Governor Jon Huntsman. Thank you.

HUNTSMAN: Thank you, Kitty.

PILGRIM: Let's remind you to vote in tonight's poll. Do you believe that illegal aliens should be given the privilege to drive legally in this country? Yes or no? You can cast your vote, loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.

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