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This is a partial transcript from The O'Reilly Factor, January 23, 2002. Click here to order the complete transcript.
View photo of reconquista Ramos
BILL O'REILLY, HOST: In the Personal Story segment tonight, Univision TV anchorman, Jorge Ramos, has a new book out called The Other Face of America: Chronicles of the Immigrants Shaping our Future. In the book, Mr. Ramos calls for a blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants, among other things and a modified open border with Mexico. He joins us now.
Now you know, I am calling for the military use, military to be put on the border.
JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION ANCHOR: I understand that.
O'REILLY: To stop the chaotic situation down there. It's not an anti-Latin thing or anything. It's just that -- and I do believe as you do in a guest worker program. But I believe Mexico should pay for it. And Mexico should do the paperwork and all of that, present it to us, and then we say OK, so-and-so come in and so-and-so can't. Where am I going wrong?
RAMOS: Well, I agree with you that it's a chaotic situation. But what I understand is that there are eight million, at least eight million undocumented immigrants in this country. They're in this country because American companies are hiring them and because American citizens are hiring them.
So all these immigrants are needed in this country on one hand. So this is the economic argument to give an amnesty. Many people do not like to call it an amnesty. President Bush doesn't like to call it an amnesty. He likes to call it a guest worker program, a legalization program.
O'REILLY: Yes, but if you make them citizens, then basically, and Ronald Reagan did, you're just say hey...
RAMOS: In 1996, yes.
O'REILLY: ...first of all, it's unfair to the people who are playing by the rules, who haven't come in illegally. I mean, they're sitting there waiting for their visas. And they're going hey, where's? You know, if I broke the law and came in, then I'd be rewarded.
And second of all, you're encouraging more because after President Reagan did the amnesty, there was a flood of illegal immigrants coming in here. Did you know, Mr. Ramos, did you know that 25 percent of all the people incarcerated in California are illegal immigrants? 25 percent. And that's not...
RAMOS: No, but the thing is...
O'REILLY: That's criminals. That's criminals.
RAMOS: I mean, the fact -- what you want to present is that all immigrants.
O'REILLY: Not all.
RAMOS: Well, many immigrants are criminals according to your...
O'REILLY: Many are.
RAMOS: But that's not true.
O'REILLY: But 25 percent of the population.
RAMOS: The truth is, you want to concentrate on the negative. The truth is, let me tell you something.
O'REILLY: Go ahead.
RAMOS: All immigrants, both illegal and undocumented, contribute more than $10 billion a year to the economy of this country.
O'REILLY: Right.
RAMOS: All immigrants. So immigrants are a very important part of this country. Immigration is inherently American.
O'REILLY: Right, I'm aware.
RAMOS: Every single person in this country, every single person, you included, is either an immigrant or a descendant of immigrants.
O'REILLY: So what...
RAMOS: With the exception of Native Americans.
O'REILLY: You'll...
RAMOS: So the fact is that if you want to concentrate on the negative, of course, you can.
O'REILLY: I don't want to concentrate on the negative.
RAMOS: But the positive is that immigrants do contribute much more to this country than what they take from this country.
O'REILLY: Well...
RAMOS: So it is not true...
O'REILLY: Illegal immigrants are divided into two groups, those who are hard-working people.
RAMOS: Most of them.
O'REILLY: Well, do you know them all personally? Because I don't. There's eight million of them.
RAMOS: No, but I can...
O'REILLY: Twenty-five percent. Look, you can't just gloss this over, Mr. Ramos. 25 percent of all the people incarcerated in California are illegals. That's an enormous number. One out of four.
RAMOS: What's your argument, Mr. O'Reilly?
O'REILLY: That there's a lot of bad guys coming over.
RAMOS: Yes, but not all of them.
O'REILLY: No, not all of them, but a lot of them.
RAMOS: Some of them. You want to put every immigrant and every foreign born in the same category. And that is simply not...
O'REILLY: Look, what I want to do is regulate it.
RAMOS: Let me tell you something. Immigrants do contribute much more to the economy of this country than what they take from these economy. Of course, there's also a national security argument. After September 11, many people, and I understand, have anti-immigrant feelings. But it is in the best interests of the United States to give an amnesty or a legalization program or guest worker program, any way you want to call it.
O'REILLY: All right, let me tell you what...
RAMOS: To know exactly who they are, to identify them.
O'REILLY: Right.
RAMOS: And to locate them. It is in the best interest of this country.
O'REILLY: It is. So I'm going to walk -- I'm going to give you my plan. And you stop me when I go wrong. OK? First of all, I say to all illegal immigrants, you have to register in the next month with the INS right now, if you're in the country illegally. That's what I say. That's number one.
RAMOS: Eventually, if that means that they're now going to be deported?
O'REILLY: Well no, I'm just saying you have to register, so we know who you are and where you are.
RAMOS: If there's a possibility of amnesty?
O'REILLY: What?
RAMOS: If there's a possibility of amnesty?
O'REILLY: No, there's no string attached to that, because they're in our country. So we make the rules, not them. So I say I'm the president. I say you have to register within 30 days at the INS so we know you're here. That's it. I'm not making any other promises. OK? Then I get the list.
RAMOS: What's going to happen to them?
O'REILLY: Well, I'll tell you. Then I get the list. And I see who's here and where they are. All right? now I handle -- and if there are some people that are, you know, Mohammed Atma and we check him, and he has a record, he's gone. So anybody with a record would be gone.
RAMOS: I think nobody would argue against that.
O'REILLY: OK. And then for the rest of them, I'd basically say you can stay, depending on their circumstance, depending where they're working, where they are. You can stay, we'll give you a green card under temporary. Or you must go back and register in your own country, a guest worker program.
RAMOS: That's not going to happen. Many people are not going to back to their country.
O'REILLY: I know that.
RAMOS: So eight million people...
O'REILLY: I know that. I know it's not going to happen. I absolutely know. A lot would be afraid and a lot wouldn't register. Then after the 30 days, I would tell my government, you catch them, they're out of here. And in the meantime, I put the military on the border, seal it.
RAMOS: But what would you...
O'REILLY: And nobody would be able to (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
RAMOS: It's completely absurd to bring the military in.
O'REILLY: Why?
RAMOS: Very simple. I mean, I don't know where you get your facts, but six out of 10 immigrants...
O'REILLY: Yes.
RAMOS: Undocumented immigrants who come to this country, they do it by train, Mr. O'Reilly.
O'REILLY: That's OK.
RAMOS: So you have...
O'REILLY: I understand. You know you have millions coming across the Mexican border a lot of them with drugs.
RAMOS: Not millions.
O'REILLY: No, there's millions that come across every year.
RAMOS: No, Mr. O'Reilly, you have your facts wrong. Every day, 1,000 immigrants cross the border. I mean, no more than...
O'REILLY: Mr. Ramos, 1,000 cross the border in Arizona alone. OK?
RAMOS: No, Mr. O'Reilly...
O'REILLY: These are border patrol stats.
RAMOS: Well, the INS has the statistics.
O'REILLY: These are border. More than a million illegals come across every year. Now they don't all stay here.
RAMOS: That is not true.
O'REILLY: Some of them go back.
RAMOS: Exactly. But what happens is that every day, 1,000 immigrants do...
O'REILLY: 1,000 from Brownsville to San Diego, you're telling me 1,000 immigrants come across there?
RAMOS: There are 2,000 miles of border.
O'REILLY: You're telling me only 1,000?
RAMOS: 1,000 a day. So but let me tell you something. It is a double standard and hypocritical to criticize the immigrants, to pretend to close the border, which is clearly impossible, and at the same time to benefit from the work of the immigrants. You are benefiting from the work of immigrants.
O'REILLY: All right, you're a well-traveled guy, right?
RAMOS: The house where you live was most probably built by immigrants.
O'REILLY: I'm not anti-immigrant, Mr. Ramos. I just want it regulated.
RAMOS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Most probably was harvested by immigrants.
O'REILLY: Fine.
RAMOS: Every restaurant and every hotel where you go, most probably is serviced by immigrants. So you are criticizing immigrants and at the same time, you are --
O'REILLY: I'm not criticizing it. I want it regulated because it hurts the United States.
RAMOS: Let's regulate it.
O'REILLY: Now you're a well-traveled guy.
RAMOS: Yes.
O'REILLY: Did you ever go to Europe when the Berlin Wall was up?
RAMOS: I was right there.
O'REILLY: Now you couldn't get in or out of there. There were very few. And you're telling me that the United States military could not seal that Mexican boarder? You're crazy. They could seal it in a month. They could seal it in a month. And they should seal it. Because that would stop the chaos.
RAMOS: I don't think you understand what's going on right now at the border.
O'REILLY: I've been there many times.
RAMOS: Yes, I've been there many times, too. And it has nothing to do with law enforcement. It has nothing to do with military operations. It's simply an economic issue.
O'REILLY: It is?
RAMOS: The law of supply and demand. As long as there are workers in Mexico who need jobs and are who are making $5 a day...
O'REILLY: Of course.
RAMOS: And as long as there are jobs in the United States in which they make the $5...
O'REILLY: They're going to come. I don't blame them. I blame the Unites States government for allowing the chaos in the narcotics and everything they come across.
RAMOS: Yes, it's chaotic and it has to be changed. But here are the solutions. First, you have to give an amnesty or a legalization program for eight million undocumented immigrants.
O'REILLY: That's crazy.
RAMOS: And then you have to reach an agreement with Mexico to have a more orderly flow of immigrants from Mexico.
O'REILLY: I agree with that. You've got to reach that agreement.
RAMOS: And third, you'd have to understand that this is a multicultural, multiethnic, multiracial society. And that the ideal society that you want, it's all in your mind and all in the past.
O'REILLY: All right. And you have to realize that this is a nation of law. And it must...
RAMOS: And this is a nation of immigrants also, Mr. O'Reilly.
O'REILLY: And we must obey, that's right. And we must obey the law and do it in an orderly fashion.
RAMOS: And they are here because American companies are hiring.
O'REILLY: All right, we'll take care of the American companies. Provocative book and we appreciate you coming in and talking about it.
RAMOS: Thank you very much.
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