Transcript

Scarborough Country
MSNBC -- June 23, 2003 -- Rep. Tom Tancredo and Rep. Luis Gutierrez

SCARBOROUGH: All right, and we want to hear what you think of the affirmative action ruling, so give me a call at 1-888-MSNBC-USA.

And still to come: Forget about sending the kids to basketball or ballet camp. What about a summer nudist camp for teens? "There You Go Again." We're going to ask one camp director if this is harmless fun or something much more dangerous.

But first, if you are an illegal immigrant from Mexico and living in this country, all you need is $28 and you're in-why the Mexican government is helping to keep illegals in the United States. That's up next in "The View From SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY," right after a quick break.

Stick around. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH: Still to come: how the Mexican government is actually helping illegal immigrants in the U.S.

"The View From SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY" is coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. I'm Joe Scarborough. Now, we talk all the time on this show about the struggle to control illegal immigration. But what would you think if I told you that the Mexican government is actually helping illegals break U.S. law?

Here's "The View From SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCARBOROUGH (voice-over): It seems like a mystery. How do illegal immigrants with no paperwork navigate life in America? How do they get bank accounts, drive cars, enroll their kids in school?

Well, many get by with fake I.D.s. Others use a document called matricula consular card. They are identification cards that allow illegal aliens to get a checkbook, a driver's license and to blend into American society. And where do illegals get this powerful tool that helps them break the law? From Mexican consulates. That's right, the Mexican government helping illegals violate American law.

Over one million of the cards were issued last year alone by 45 Mexican consulates all over this country. They only cost $28, cheaper than a marriage license in most states. And their existence begs the question:

When it comes to enforcing security on our borders, is the Mexican government with us or against us?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCARBOROUGH: With us now is Republican Congressman Tom Tancredo, who is leading the charge on Capitol Hill to stop the misuse of these I.D. cards. And also with us is Democratic Congressman Luis Gutierrez of Illinois, who believes that these cards should stay in use.

Gentlemen, I would like to welcome both of you here.

And I would like to start with you, Congressman Gutierrez, and ask you, how can you defend the use of these cards that help illegals move about, work and live in American society?

REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: Well, first of all, I think we should understand what they can't be used for, so that it there is-real clear.

You can't get public benefits: welfare, food stamps. It can't be used for travel. You can't get employment with it. And unlike what we just saw up on the screen, in the state of California, a matricula consular does not allow to you get a driver's license. What it does allow to you do is go to one of 80 banks, banking institutions in the United States of America, to get a checking account, to be part of the bank in this country.

It allows to you enroll your children in school. The Supreme Court said you have got to enroll all the children in this country in school in our public schools. That's a good thing, to keep them in our school system and educate them, since they will probably be integrated into our work force in the future. And it allows to you get housing. You need an I.D. to get your gas and your electricity. It allows you to do those things. But it is not a form of identification for immigration purposes. You can't travel with it.

SCARBOROUGH: OK, all right.

Tom Tancredo, why are you trying to stop this?

REP. TOM TANCREDO ®, COLORADO: Well, of course, because it is exactly the opposite. It is the attempt by-on the part of the Mexican government to obtain what it could not get through the Congress of the United States. And that is amnesty for all of those Mexicans living here illegally. By the way, Joe, it's not just Mexico today. Mexico started it. But now there are at least six other countries that are following suit. And there will be many more in a very short period of time.

The real issue here is the degree to which the strategy employed by Mexico is going to work for them. And it's a good one, I have to say, that they've figured out a good way to get around the Congress and get around the law. Mr. Gutierrez says, my colleague, Mr. Gutierrez, say that it's not available for certain things. Well, it's not available for certain things in certain states, simply because the Mexican consulate hasn't gotten there yet to lobby those governments, state and local, to give it to them for the consular card, which they are doing all over America.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: Well, let me show our viewers exactly what it takes to get one of these cards. In addition to $28, all you need is a Mexican birth certificate, a Mexican photo I.D., and some proof of U.S. residence. Even an electricity bill will do.

Congressman Gutierrez, shouldn't the Mexican government at least be asking these people the very, very simple question, are you supposed to be in the United States of America legally?

GUTIERREZ: You know, it is-the Mexican consular card has been used for 130 years. It's nothing new. Consular cards are part of our Geneva Convention. They're issued by governments all over the world. It is the responsibility of the Mexican government, when there's someone of our government, to insure the identity of someone else.

But, Mr. Scarborough, as I look at the list of things you say were requisite to get a matricula consular, those are the same things I need to get an American passport. And we all know you can get a fake birth certificate in the United States, fake driver's licenses. And you don't have to be somebody from another country to do damage in this country and to be part of a criminal element doing those precise kinds of things every day.

What it allows people to do is send money back. I think that's the primary reason that the Mexican government-I have never entered into a conversation with the Mexican government about why they use it. But I do have, in the city of Chicago, tens of thousands of Mexican nationals, Polish nationals, that are undocumented that allows them to bank and send money back to their relatives.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: But, Congressman, the bottom line is, though, they're not supposed to be here, whether they're from Poland or whether they're from Mexico. That's the bottom line, right?

GUTIERREZ: You know something, Mr. Scarborough? And I think your-that very question begs the following one. Where is it in this country the requisite resources and political will to deport millions and millions of undocumented workers that work in our agricultural industry, in our hotel industry and all kinds of industries.

SCARBOROUGH: That's a great point. And let me ask Tom Tancredo that.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTIERREZ: If it doesn't exist, then shouldn't we regulate and integrate them into our country?

SCARBOROUGH: That's a good point. That's a good point.

Now, I want to look at some of the trends across the United States and then ask Tom Tancredo that question. In San Francisco, hospitals, schools and other public agencies, they are now required to accept these cards. Police departments in Houston, Kansas City and Phoenix are all accepting these I.D. cards. And Bank of America took competitors Chase and Wells Fargo to town for not only accepting the cards like they do, but also opening a branch at the Mexican Consulate in Santa Ana, California, just to make it easier for illegals to open these accounts.

Tom Tancredo, the congressman makes a good point. Part of the problem is that United States businesses depend on illegals to continue their operations.

TANCREDO: It is a good point. And when he asks, "Where's the political will?" and I will tell you, I have got the political will to vote to deport people who are here illegally. If Mr. Gutierrez will support me, man, that will make two of us.

But the reality, of course, is that political will probably doesn't exist right now, because what we have got is, we have got one party, the Democratic Party, that sees massive immigration, legal and illegal, as a potential base of support for them through votes. We have got the Republican Party on the other side who sees massive immigration, illegal and legal, as a source of cheap labor

As a result, we're at loggerheads trying to get anything done here. But I assure you that, if you're looking for political will to do it, Congressman Gutierrez, I will support you. If you're actually asking me to upheld-to do what I can to uphold the laws of this country and to force our government into actually enforcing the law, I will do it, absolutely, without a moment's hesitation.

Will you join me? Will you join me, Mr. Gutierrez?

SCARBOROUGH: All right. All right.

You have got two seconds. Yes or no?

GUTIERREZ: Well, I would suggest that next time that Mr. Scarborough and Mr. Tancredo have their own program and it not be two against one, and we would have a fairer debate

(CROSSTALK)

TANCREDO: Yes or no?

SCARBOROUGH: Thank you very much, gentlemen.

OK, well, actually, I agreed with both congressmen there. And the bottom line is that the biggest problem with illegal immigration isn't what happens at the border. It's what happens after they already get here. And there are too many people-and, yes, Republicans, Republicans-who think cheap labor, illegal or legal, is a very good thing. I think it's a disgrace.

Straight ahead on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY: a Monday night edition of the "Buzz." Democratic presidential hopefuls make some news today. But one wants to move to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. And if he's going to do it, he needs to learn some basics. We'll explain when we come back.

And later: why some summer camp directors are asking its child campers to go nude. Is this summer fun? "There You Go Again." We're going to meet one nudist camp director, coming up.

And, remember, we're taking your phone calls at SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY on affirmative action. That number is 888-MSNBC-USA. Give me a call.

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