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Partial Transcript
Lou Dobbs Tonight - CNN -- November 9, 2004[...]
Secretary of State Colin Powell today said giving legal status to millions of illegal aliens in this country is a high priority for President Bush. Secretary Powell and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge are in Mexico meeting with Mexican officials who are urging them to give more rights to Mexicans living in this country illegally.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge and Mexican Interior Minister Santiago Creel stood under a portrait of Benito Juarez, the man who liberated Mexico from the French. Ridge and Creel spoke of their plans to liberate up to six million illegal aliens from U.S. immigration law. Their first priority, President Bush's proposed temporary worker program.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I think it's just important to reiterate that when the president spoke about a very specific approach to deal with -- to address the problem of so many illegal immigrants from Mexico and other places who while crossing our borders illegally work, contribute to our vitality of businesses in our economic way of life.
WIAN: There was no mention of the economic costs of illegal aliens from government services to lower wages.
SANTIAGO CREEL, MEXICAN INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): We would like to guarantee that our citizens who work on the other side of the border without documents that there could be some plan that permits them to work legally, and that their human rights and labor rights are guaranteed.
WIAN: Creel has been the Mexican government's most strident critic of U.S. immigration policy. Just last week calling it absurd. Today he complained about the U.S. Border Patrol's use of nonlethal air rifles that shoot pepper spray ammunition. Officials of both administrations spoke of their efforts to improve security and the free flow of legal traffic across the worlds busiest land border. Apparently the last remaining hurdle is the U.S. Congress.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We will make an assessment with the new Congress, the pace at which we can proceed with temporary worker programs. And how fast and how far we can move in what period of time.
WIAN: President Bush's immigration reform plan will be a year old by the time Congress takes up the issue in January.
(on camera): Both governments are counting on the fact that 2005 will not be an election year. Their agendas would have not been likely to pass this year, because most voters don't approve of legal status for illegal aliens.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question is do you agree with Secretary of State Colin Powell, that millions of illegal aliens in this country should be given legal status, yes or no? Cast you vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.
Voters in Arizona voted overwhelmingly in favor of Proposition 200, that initiative cuts off state benefits for illegal aliens and prevents them from voting. Tomorrow the Phoenix City counsel will vote to protect city employees who might be sued for providing a public benefit to an illegal alien, once proposition 200 does become law. The mayor of Phoenix, Phil Gordon, opposed proposition 200. He believes it's the responsibility of the federal government to secure our borders. And Mayor Gordon joins me tonight from Phoenix.
Mayor, good to have you with us.
MAYOR PHIL GORDON, PHOENIX: Thank you very much, Lou.
DOBBS: This is a hotly contested issue in the state of Arizona, many other states in this country, certainly all of the border states. What are you trying to accomplish with this initiative in the city council?
GORDON: Well, first and foremost, let me say that the city will follow the law. The problem is, we don't know what that law means. It was so poorly drafted. And the way it's written is that a city employee can be sued by anybody in the state, and criminally liable. That chills our government from moving forward until the courts decide what this law means, and how to define it. So that what we're going to do tomorrow is indemnify any city employee that's sued under this law, provided the city employee is within the scope of his or her employment, and secondly, is following the policy of the city, which is to implement the law as best as we can.
DOBBS: To implement the law as best you can, you are already on the record in opposing it, as is the Arizona delegation. The governor of your state, yet your state...
GORDON: Senator McCain and others.
DOBBS: You're right. Now, that's terrific, except the people of Arizona have voted through referendum to put this forward. You say it's worded poorly. All of the constitutional experts and initiative experts who've weighed in on this said that it was balanced, that there was nothing that would suggest it would be in any way in the same difficulty as Proposition 187 found itself in California some years ago.
GORDON: Well, Lou, again, let me emphasize, the city is not trying to stop the will of the voters. We'll follow the law. The reason I opposed it was, it was poorly written. It will require courts to rule on this for years, and the attorneys are the ones that are going to be the winners. The citizens of Arizona will be the losers.
Having said that, we don't know what welfare benefits, what public benefits are. People are arguing today, as we speak, those same constitutional experts are in the paper having difference of opinions. All we're asking is we want the courts to tell us how to implement that law. That's number one.
Number two, we don't want our employees, 14,000 hard-working police officers, firefighters being sued for following what we believe the law is. We're going to try to interpret that. But there are so many questions, Lou, that we don't know what to do.
DOBBS: Well, you do have a counsel there in the city government, don't you, Mayor?
GORDON: Yes.
DOBBS: What does he say, or she?
GORDON: Well, our attorney actually is saying exactly what I'm saying. Is that, number one, there are two questions. How do we implement election law in terms of proving one's residency? That's not done. And then two is, what is a benefit? Is it a library card? Is it a welfare benefit? Is it going to a park? Is it some of these...
DOBBS: How about any benefit rendered by a government agency in the state of Arizona? Wouldn't that cover it?
GORDON: Well, Lou, first of all, the question is, what is a benefit? Is it those that are paid for, or given free? But let me take your point...
DOBBS: Mayor, take one more point instead. Let me ask you this. Why isn't there so much -- why isn't there as much concern about the word "illegal" -- illegal, in the state of Arizona?
GORDON: Lou, that's our point. My point has always been the federal government has got to do something about illegal immigration. I've said it, we've said it before. We're a border state and a border city that's getting hurt by this.
(CROSSTALK)
GORDON: ... nothing to do about that.
DOBBS: I guess what I'm -- I guess what I'm saying, Mayor, is that to me, surely you get irony. You appreciate the irony of your state's governor, you as the mayor of the city's largest, most distinguished city, the delegation of the state of Arizona, including Senator John McCain, sort of worrying over this proposition, yet each of those people has had an opportunity for now over a decade in nearly all cases to do something about it, and yet they're clucking over Proposition 200. Don't you find that extraordinarily ironic?
GORDON: Well, again, I can't speak for the delegation or any of the congressmen or senators throughout the country.
I can speak as the mayor of Phoenix. Is, number one, immigration is not a local issue. The city of Phoenix can't regulate immigration for the country or for the state.
But, Lou, let me go back to the point that you made, is let's define it your way. I want to make the point of why we as a city are concerned. That all benefits -- the problem is, there are many individuals that are arguing it's only certain benefits. They can sue our city employees under this law, which means it wipes out our city employees' accounts by following your advice, which let's say we all agree with. All we're asking is the court, please define what it is so that our employees won't be sued. And I want to protect our employees to do the right thing. All we're asking is, tell us what it is.
DOBBS: Yeah, and I'm sure as well, want to protect the citizens of the great city of Phoenix. Have you all considered maybe suing the federal government for not enforcing the immigration laws?
GORDON: No. That, you know...
DOBBS: I'm just curious.
GORDON: Yeah, no. What we have asked is that the -- and I have said it, you know what, come up with an immigration law that's enforceable and works. Whatever it is, that's what we'll support. But that's a national issue, and it has to get done.
DOBBS: Mayor, we thank you very much. Mayor Phil Gordon.
GORDON: Thank you.
DOBBS: Come back soon.
GORDON: Come on to Phoenix. It's a great city.
DOBBS: We'll be there, thank you.
Still ahead, the future of the U.S. Supreme Court. How aging justices and a new term for President Bush will affect our nation's highest court. The editor of a new book on Justice Scalia, Kevin Ring joins me.
And exporting America. Why companies that ship American jobs overseas are celebrating President Bush's reelection. All of that and a great deal more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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